Too Technical? Or just not explored yet!

Discussion in 'Indian Motorcycle Tech Questions & Answers' started by dieselgman, Dec 27, 2019.

?

Do you think it is time for an open book on the newer Indian product lines?

  1. I want to see the real guts of these bikes explored.

    43.8%
  2. I just want to ride and let my dealership take responsibility for technicalities.

    6.3%
  3. I would do my own work if I had open access to everything needed for success.

    43.8%
  4. If I had a competent independent shop I would use their services for my bike.

    68.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    I note very little Q&A on many involved technical problems - custom builds - assembly and repair procedures on this Forum. There seems to be a bit more over on IMC, but still not too much in-depth.
    My questions and thoughts:
    1.) Are there other sites that I don't know about where the real technical people do their thing? I am thinking along the lines of where the dealership techs share info and where the independents could share their ideas, solutions, and projects. Engine builds and modifications, major rebuilds, custom modifications, custom paint... the real nitty gritty of the newer Indian product lines.
    2.) Is there any interest for such things to be posted/shared here?
    3.) Am I correct in assuming that most of this technical know-how is still guarded and secret by contractual obligation? Is it simply a matter of fewness in number of independent qualified techs and a protective veil around Polaris proprietary information? I say some of this simply because they do their best to enforce proprietary control over their tooling and software even though they (Polaris) do not own and manufacture said tooling and resources... they rely on third parties - Bosch and DSA for instance. They require their dealerships to invest fairly heavily in this resource, including the technical training...
    4.) In my opinion, these bikes have been in the field long enough and in sufficient quantity now that the free-market should begin exerting some influence on service and technical support for the product line.

    Is a public forum a safe or even an appropriate place to dig very deeply into these topics? I really have an interest in developing independent resources... not so much in stirring up trouble or confusion though. Much more to discuss when I find the appropriate place and the interest to make it useful to others.
     
    #1 dieselgman, Dec 27, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  2. Alpal

    Alpal Gold Member
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    It's been my experience here that if you ask a question you will invariably receive answers, either short and sweet or in-depth, depending on the nature of the question,......There are very knowledgeable people here for both big sister and little sister bikes as well as a couple of experienced parts people and a salesman full of knowledge,.......You just have to ask,.......
    Alpal
     
  3. PileOParts

    PileOParts Silver Member

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    Dieselman, we welcome you and appreciate the contributions you've already made. But I think it would be appropriate for you to take a bit more time getting the feel of this site that we've all enjoyed for so long before making a pitch to change it more to your liking. Not picking a fight. Just saying.
     
    #3 PileOParts, Dec 27, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  4. Baldhead_J

    Baldhead_J Gold Member
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    Thanks for allowing more than one response to the poll. I chose 1 & 3.

    With respect to your points I'll give you my take and everyone else will definitely pile on:
    1) Not that I know of. The guys I know [dealer techs] check these forums [Builds] and call Indian. I don't have a clue who Lloyd or Coastal Performance calls.

    2) Incalculable interest

    3) My ignorance exceeds yours.

    4) Which product line, specifically? TS111 and model variations, Scouts, FTRs, or P+ and model variations?

    Dude, there's a build sub forum for EXACTLY this kind of stuff and there are a few wrenches here. There are also a few very technical dudes around than can/will contribute.
     
  5. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    No doubt I get in a hurry sometimes... My "pitch" is simply to elicit feedback and insights. Thanks for yours! There is no doubt in my mind that whether a person seeks to change something or not, participation DOES make changes in the totality.

    I will spend my time where I appear to be wanted, and where my inputs are doing some good. Time and energy is in a slowly diminishing supply in my world.
     
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  6. PileOParts

    PileOParts Silver Member

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    As I said -- welcome aboard.
     
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  7. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    Re #4... primarily the Heavyweights that have been significantly the same bike for 7 model years now. Scout close behind I believe. PP108 certainly not out in quantity in people's hands and shops yet.
     
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  8. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    Thanks for that... I have been warmly welcomed here. I like the atmosphere and would not want to change that. I am also someone who WILL stir the pot If I see a purpose or benefit. You might have an idea how engineer types are - blunt and analytical to a fault sometimes. That is me. I need to be of service to others... not a follower.
     
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  9. Baldhead_J

    Baldhead_J Gold Member
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    Do you. Snowflakes melt.
     
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  10. geewago

    geewago Well-Known Member

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    Well most of the riders I know haven't had much trouble, if any at all. Therefore for them there's not a whole lot of questions about mechanical things so far.
     
  11. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    Good point. I have seen quite a few high-mileage bikes though, trouble-free now, but eventually going to involve rebuilds.
    I purchased 22 damaged bikes this year... I expect the economics to be slowly tipping in favor of used/rebuilt vs new for some new buyers.
     
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  12. Alpal

    Alpal Gold Member
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    ????
     
  13. wildmandmc

    wildmandmc Well-Known Member

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    my answer/opinion i'm an IT guy , not a bike IT guy. My take is that anything that brings up a conversation with other members of a site is a good thing. more engaged translate's to more activity, Keeps an interest going on .
     
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  14. JayFL459

    JayFL459 Silver Member
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    I have had a Factory Service Manual for every Motorcycle I have owned just having an interest in what makes things tick and also procedures for doing things from an Oil Change to a Major Rebuild .. I did click 4 for the simple reason I have Kevin Cross 20 miles away from me who was Service Manager for a Polaris Dealership for over 10 Years and can work on anything with the Polaris Label including Indians which he jumped in with both feet when saw the writing on the wall that Victory was on it's way out and Indian was here to stay ..
     
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  15. Notaharley

    Notaharley Active Member

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    First, you will only get technical questions from the ones who are tearing into their bikes....and that has always been a small part of the population -- and I believe, it is diminishing.

    That said -- I am one of those guys. Used to own a shop and love doing my own work. I have not been inside my 111 engine, but I have dismantled the rest of the bike.

    My interest would lie in performance increases. Not just hp/torque, but handling, and alternative builds -- like this:
    Screenshot_20191228-084857.png



    I get tired of the same-old same-old.

    The big front wheel fad is dead (please!!) and "performance baggers" is in (hallelujah) and the Hooligan class is growing.
    Bobbers are classic and are the poor man's hot rod.

    Bring me some of THAT!
     
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  16. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    That is me as well. I was an early adopter of the 116BBK when it came out, now have 3 of them. Used PCVs to tune, then PVCX, now PV3s. I have a long way to go with learning. I love getting into black-box type of things - just getting started into the computers and controllers and sensors on the Indians. CANBUS and it's subtleties, interpreting failure modes and how to diagnose, all very interesting and fun. Thanks.
     
  17. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    Can you share why you think that the number of people tearing into these bikes is diminishing?
    One of the reasons for starting this discussion was to feel out the territory a bit in terms of these questions. It may be better for me to put my stuff in a more specialized place though. Cluttering with unwanted junk, (or information that is not needed), is not everyone's cup of tea - but it is mine.
     
  18. wildmandmc

    wildmandmc Well-Known Member

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    gone are the days when u seen a lot of the $60k bikes.
     
  19. Baldhead_J

    Baldhead_J Gold Member
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    Search King Killer. There's a thread on that Hartluck build.
     
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  20. dieselgman

    dieselgman Active Member

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    That is in part my point about the used marketplace and access to reasonable parts resources and expertise/tooling. I don't want to turn out $60,000 or $40,000 or even $20,000 custom bikes... That market is far too small. With alternative resources they can now be built in many cases well under the $10,000 mark.
     
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