Flew fighters for 25 years. 4 airplanes, three feet apart at 500 knots... group rides are not inherently bad. But, just like I wouldn’t throw a young guy right into a 4-ship formation, I wouldn’t recommend an untrained biker riding in a large group. However, unless they ride with other bikes, they’ll never get good at riding with other bikes. What strikes me about this conversation is the lack of willingness to help people learn. Maybe that’s part of the reason the industry is slowly dying...? Maybe instead of just being the legendary lone wolf, find an inexperienced rider and take him under your wing.